I say C#
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| Revive MS forums http://www.miragesource.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=193&t=5965 |
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| Author: | Beres [ Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
I say C#
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| Author: | Dragoons Master [ Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
I say C#, even thou I'm making a C++ port xD |
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| Author: | genusis [ Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
C# be the better one, because sooner or later Microsoft is going to remove support for vb.net as well >.> |
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| Author: | Rian [ Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
genusis wrote: because sooner or later Microsoft is going to remove support for vb.net as well >.> Site your sources, please. |
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| Author: | genusis [ Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
Common sense they been dropping vb and such and created the failure programming language vb.net which is just an under study of C#. |
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| Author: | Nean [ Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
genusis wrote: Common sense they been dropping vb and such and created the failure programming language vb.net which is just an under study of C#. That doesn't make any sense. VB6 was dropped because there's .Net. They're not going to drop VB .Net until something comes out in the same language, that is superior. Or at least, that's what I'd assume. |
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| Author: | genusis [ Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/cambridge/projects/fsharp/ |
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| Author: | Dragoons Master [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
genusis wrote: You can make any language a DOT NET language. All you have to do is click here ^^ . VB.Net is not going to die. Just trust me xD (sry for no sources). The important is that you are using the .Net Framework. If you are using Vb.Net, C#.Net or Cobol.Net, it does not matter. |
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| Author: | Acruno [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
The only games coming from Mirage are going to be small 2d morpgs, played by a tiny (in comparison to other online games) community of dedicated people. Moving to Dx8, while having the benefit to make everything pretty and translucent, doesn't actually do much to improve the basic focus of Mirage. VB6 is still used today because it is easy, accessible and usable. Microsoft has stated that they will continue to have OS' that run VB6 for a further ten years. They wouldn't do that without a good reason. Sure, vb.net is the standard now, but is it really needed? |
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| Author: | Matt [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
Acruno wrote: The only games coming from Mirage are going to be small 2d morpgs, played by a tiny (in comparison to other online games) community of dedicated people. Moving to Dx8, while having the benefit to make everything pretty and translucent, doesn't actually do much to improve the basic focus of Mirage. VB6 is still used today because it is easy, accessible and usable. Microsoft has stated that they will continue to have OS' that run VB6 for a further ten years. They wouldn't do that without a good reason. Sure, vb.net is the standard now, but is it really needed? QFT. |
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| Author: | Dragoons Master [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
Acruno wrote: The only games coming from Mirage are going to be small 2d morpgs, played by a tiny (in comparison to other online games) community of dedicated people. Moving to Dx8, while having the benefit to make everything pretty and translucent, doesn't actually do much to improve the basic focus of Mirage. VB6 is still used today because it is easy, accessible and usable. Microsoft has stated that they will continue to have OS' that run VB6 for a further ten years. They wouldn't do that without a good reason. Sure, vb.net is the standard now, but is it really needed? The thing is that Vb6 is only supported. There will be no VB6 SP7 or anything. It does not support DX9 and will never do. It does not follow the main paradigm that is used nowadays, OO. This are only a few reasons to declare it dead. I'm not saying it sux or anything. I love it(DOT) But it does not full-fits our needs anymore. DotNet is the future, and I don't see it dieing in a short period nor a very long future. That is my opinion. |
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| Author: | Rian [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
I wonder if it will work more out-of-the-box with Windows 7 than it did with Vista? Or will we still have to enable administrator mode (Or whatever the process was) to register the library files? |
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| Author: | DarkSpartan4 [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
Rian wrote: I wonder if it will work more out-of-the-box with Windows 7 than it did with Vista? Or will we still have to enable administrator mode (Or whatever the process was) to register the library files? When I was running the Windows 7 beta, I had to turn off UAC before I could register any dll's, so I think it'll be the same in the retail version. You should just turn off UAC after you install Windows 7 anyway. It isn't needed and turning it off saves you a lot of trouble. And it's annoying to run regsvr32 as administrator whenever you want to register a dll anyway. Might as well just turn off UAC. |
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| Author: | Matt [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
You gotta do the same stuff in 7 as Vista. |
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| Author: | Acruno [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
Dragoons Master wrote: Acruno wrote: The only games coming from Mirage are going to be small 2d morpgs, played by a tiny (in comparison to other online games) community of dedicated people. Moving to Dx8, while having the benefit to make everything pretty and translucent, doesn't actually do much to improve the basic focus of Mirage. VB6 is still used today because it is easy, accessible and usable. Microsoft has stated that they will continue to have OS' that run VB6 for a further ten years. They wouldn't do that without a good reason. Sure, vb.net is the standard now, but is it really needed? The thing is that Vb6 is only supported. There will be no VB6 SP7 or anything. It does not support DX9 and will never do. It does not follow the main paradigm that is used nowadays, OO. This are only a few reasons to declare it dead. I'm not saying it sux or anything. I love it(DOT) But it does not full-fits our needs anymore. DotNet is the future, and I don't see it dieing in a short period nor a very long future. That is my opinion. The "main paradigm" isn't always the best. Windows 95 could access the internet, and yet people that just want to do their banking on-line go out and buy Windows 7. Vb6 does everything that is needed for a basic game. If someone wants transparencies and particle effects then they can convert it themselves. I've always liked Mirage for the fact it basically has no features. You just have a lightweight template to mould to your liking. I think Matt for one hates the look of a transparent GUI in a 2D game and therefore would have no need for a feature that incorporates it. Why make people remove it when it would be far easier just to detail how to add it? Personally, I would love to see mirage in a new language, but I'm just pointing out the possible problems with this. |
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| Author: | Dragoons Master [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
The "main paradigm" is proved to be the best for this kind of applications(games). I'm not saying that you can't make a game with VB6 (Mirage, daah), but Object Oriented Languages makes it more easy and reliable. Imo, it's better to make one single source that can handle all the needs from the community. If you want to make a simple game, then you just don't use the transparencies and particle effects. For example, my AI system is kind of heavy weight, so a VB6 server kind of make it slower for me. If it has developed in C++ the performance would be much better, and you'll even be able to make safe multi-threaded applications (yes, you can do it with Vb6, but it's way hard and you need a damn good knowledge to make it work). I also love Mirage for the fact it is very simple, but I think that DX8 is a feature that is constructive for the source. If, for example Math, don't need/like it, the don't need to remove it, just don't use it, since DX8 support simple 2D rendering. |
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| Author: | Matt [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
You're right, I don't like translucent GUIs, but not just in 2D games, I don't like them in 3D games either. It doesn't look good, imo. The problem with DX8 is it's a whole new system to learn. If you don't wanna learn DX8, and prefer 7, like me then you don't need DX8. I honestly vote you just do two modules, one for each and make it simple to switch between and have the game rendered by either one, but not both at the same time. |
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| Author: | Joost [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
One of the few things I've seen over time is that all ports failed. Verigan tried it, a person most of us respect, and he failed. So unless you guys got a damn good plan, I don't see it happening. |
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| Author: | Dragoons Master [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
A solution to solve this is make a generic class, then Mirage would really be an engine, but it's way too much work, and every time you add any simple stuff, the work would be much greater than how it is nowadays. I haven't finished my port because of my lack of time. I'll be entering the last hard semester. In less than 6 month I'll be able to get back to it and finish. It's almost working, only the network stuff that got problems. |
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| Author: | DarkSpartan4 [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
Acruno wrote: Dragoons Master wrote: Acruno wrote: The only games coming from Mirage are going to be small 2d morpgs, played by a tiny (in comparison to other online games) community of dedicated people. Moving to Dx8, while having the benefit to make everything pretty and translucent, doesn't actually do much to improve the basic focus of Mirage. VB6 is still used today because it is easy, accessible and usable. Microsoft has stated that they will continue to have OS' that run VB6 for a further ten years. They wouldn't do that without a good reason. Sure, vb.net is the standard now, but is it really needed? The thing is that Vb6 is only supported. There will be no VB6 SP7 or anything. It does not support DX9 and will never do. It does not follow the main paradigm that is used nowadays, OO. This are only a few reasons to declare it dead. I'm not saying it sux or anything. I love it(DOT) But it does not full-fits our needs anymore. DotNet is the future, and I don't see it dieing in a short period nor a very long future. That is my opinion. The "main paradigm" isn't always the best. Windows 95 could access the internet, and yet people that just want to do their banking on-line go out and buy Windows 7. Vb6 does everything that is needed for a basic game. If someone wants transparencies and particle effects then they can convert it themselves. I've always liked Mirage for the fact it basically has no features. You just have a lightweight template to mould to your liking. I think Matt for one hates the look of a transparent GUI in a 2D game and therefore would have no need for a feature that incorporates it. Why make people remove it when it would be far easier just to detail how to add it? Personally, I would love to see mirage in a new language, but I'm just pointing out the possible problems with this. You don't have to use transparency if the engine uses DX8, it's just an extra option. It's really nice just to be able to use PNG's, rather than bmp's, because it saves a lot of space and you don't have to compress your graphics. PNG's also give you the option to use transparency, which is really convenient. It isn't like alpha blending was never used in 2D games in the past, either. Many SNES games had alpha blending, so why can't ours? I find DX8 to be a lot easier to use than DX7 and it gives you many advantages that can help to improve your game. |
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| Author: | Acruno [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
I'm fairly sold on Dx8 to be honest  Also, a benefit to .NET, I believe that people running Linux systems (This might just be limited to Debian-based Distros, not entirely sure) can use .NET applications using the Mono Framework. Useful for me anyway. |
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| Author: | Dragoons Master [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
I got very pissed of about Mono... I tried to use it, and it only works for very simple applications. I was using unsafe code in C#, for image processing (I work with that), and Mono simply does not know how to make use of GDI... There is an open gdi stuff for wine/mono but it sux and I didn't manage to make it work =/ |
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| Author: | Acruno [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
Dragoons Master wrote: but it sux and I didn't manage to make it work =/ Yay Linux. |
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| Author: | unknown [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
Yeah.. Mono isn't developed by Microsoft so it's not up to date & compatible with all .NET stuff. Anyone who says .NET is cross platform is over exaggerating the facts. |
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| Author: | Dragoons Master [ Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Revive MS forums |
unknown wrote: Anyone who says .NET is cross platform is over exaggerating the facts. Agreed. And that's not the objective of the .Net Framework. |
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